Tom Segura on the Neuroscience of Comedy, Creativity, and Connection

In this episode of The Huberman Lab Podcast, Dr. Andrew Huberman hosts renowned comedian, writer, and director Tom Segura. The conversation delves into the fascinating intersection of neuroscience, psychology, and the art of comedy. Segura offers a candid look into his creative process, from capturing fleeting ideas to honing them into thought-provoking and hilarious narratives. The discussion explores the neurobiological underpinnings of humor, what makes something funny, the dynamics of performing for diverse audiences, and the intricate craft of stand-up comedy. This episode is particularly relevant for anyone interested in the creative process, human psychology, the art of performance, or for fans seeking a deeper understanding of Tom Segura's work and the world of comedy.

Key Insights

• The Comedic Creative Process is Organic and Stage-Driven: According to Tom Segura, many comedic ideas originate as a "kernel" or a simple observation, often captured in voice memos or during conversations. These ideas are then largely developed and refined through live performance in clubs, allowing for real-time audience feedback, rather than being fully scripted beforehand.
• Altered States and Idea Generation: Segura shared that using THC, particularly before sleep, can sometimes facilitate creative thought by lowering self-awareness and bringing subconscious or "shelved" thoughts to the forefront. This stream-of-consciousness state can yield novel perspectives or comedic premises.
• Evolving Material Requires Letting Go: A crucial aspect of a comedian's long-term success and creative evolution is the willingness to retire successful, well-honed material. Segura emphasized the importance of "dropping" old bits, even entire albums' worth of work, to create mental space and the impetus for generating new content.
• The Dual Nature of Humor: Surprise and Taboo: Humor often stems from the element of surprise, where a narrative takes an unexpected turn. Equally potent, as Segura highlighted, is the humor derived from a comedian articulating "bad thoughts" or socially unspeakable truths, providing a cathartic release for the audience.
• Emotional Contagion in Live Performance: The live comedy experience is heavily influenced by emotional contagion. The performer's energy, authenticity, and vulnerability directly impact the audience's collective state, creating a shared experience where the crowd can feel like a single, unified entity.
• Humor's Inherent Subjectivity: Unlike other art forms where appreciation can be cultivated through education or repeated exposure, Segura suggests that comedy elicits a more immediate, involuntary "yum-yuck-meh" response. One cannot typically be convinced to find something funny if it doesn't resonate on an almost subconscious level.
• Vulnerability and Inner Drive as Creative Fuel: Segura candidly discussed how personal insecurities and experiences, such as frequently being the "new kid" in school, can be powerful motivators in comedy, fueling a desire to connect and be liked. He believes that vulnerability on stage is key to deeper audience connection and more impactful humor.

The Genesis of Jokes: Capturing and Cultivating Comedy

Tom Segura provided an intimate look into his method for capturing and developing comedic material. He revealed that ideas often emerge from daily life observations, conversations, or even during states of altered consciousness. Segura sometimes uses THC before sleep, finding that it can unlock a stream-of-consciousness flow of ideas by reducing self-censorship. These initial "kernels," as he calls them, are often recorded as voice memos. He cautioned that while some ideas conceived this way are brilliant, others can seem nonsensical in hindsight.

Crucially, Segura explained that he doesn't typically write out his bits in long form. Instead, he takes the core concept or "blueprint" of an idea directly to the stage, usually in smaller comedy clubs. This live "working out" process is where the material is truly shaped. Audience reaction provides immediate feedback, guiding him on what to keep, what to discard ("trim the fat"), and how to refine the delivery. This iterative process of performing, observing, and adjusting is central to his craft. He also uses a simple setlist of single-word cues to remind him of topics, often thinking of his hour-long shows in four 15-minute chunks, each with a different thematic focus.

A significant part of maintaining creative vitality, Segura stressed, is the willingness to let go of established material. He recounted a personal rule he adopted early in his career: after recording a comedy album, he would consciously stop performing that material to force himself to create a new hour. This practice, though challenging, prevents stagnation and fosters continuous artistic growth, a trait he observes in elite comedians who are unafraid to "bomb" with new, untested jokes in pursuit of fresh, potent material.

The Psychology and Neuroscience of What Makes Us Laugh

The conversation explored the complex question of what makes something funny. Dr. Huberman referenced the classic psychological theory that humor often relies on an element of surprise – a narrative leading the listener in one direction before an unexpected twist. Segura agreed but added another crucial dimension: the humor found in a comedian articulating unspoken, "bad thoughts" or societal taboos. This, he believes, offers a form of release and validation for audiences who may share similar unspoken sentiments. The context is vital; such pronouncements are acceptable and funny within the agreed-upon space of a comedy show, but would be alarming in everyday conversation.

The discussion touched upon a fascinating study involving the amnesic patient H.M., who would laugh at a joke initially but laugh progressively less with repeated tellings, despite having no conscious memory of hearing it before. This suggests an unconscious "saturation" effect, mirroring how jokes can lose their impact over time even for the comedian telling them, sometimes for reasons that are hard to pinpoint. Segura highlighted the inherent subjectivity of humor, contrasting it with art or music where appreciation can often be developed. Comedy, he posited, elicits a more immediate, almost visceral "funny or not funny" reaction that is difficult to negotiate or change through intellectual reasoning.

Emotional contagion was identified as a powerful force in live comedy. Segura described the ideal state where the audience feels like a single, unified entity, fully engaged and "in sync" with the performer. The comedian's own emotional state—their energy, amusement, and vulnerability—plays a huge role in shaping this collective experience. Following a comedian who has successfully "warmed up" the crowd and established a laughing, receptive state is generally preferable to following one who has "bombed," as the latter requires rebuilding the room's energy.

The Performer's Journey: Stagecraft, Adaptation, and the Comedian's Mind

Tom Segura's journey into comedy was not a direct path; he initially aimed to make movies and his background includes improv training at the Groundlings. This acting foundation is evident in his scripted series "Bad Thoughts," where he portrays various characters. His ability to do voices, such as those of his children, stems from keen observation and the natural repetition inherent in family life and storytelling.

Crowd work, Segura explained, is an essential skill for any seasoned comedian, particularly when dealing with unexpected audience interactions or hecklers. While not the primary focus of his shows, the ability to improvise and address the "obvious" (like a fight breaking out) is crucial for maintaining a connection with the audience. He noted that the landscape of comedy consumption has changed dramatically, from a few highly anticipated specials to a constant stream of content across numerous platforms. This abundance means he watches less stand-up than he used to, and can even feel anxious watching others perform if the set isn't going well, due to his own empathic understanding of the on-stage experience.

The conversation also addressed the evolution of comedic standards. What was considered hilarious decades ago might not land today, not just due to changing political correctness, but because societal norms and comedic sensibilities shift. Even legendary specials, like Eddie Murphy's "Delirious," might be perceived differently by younger audiences unfamiliar with the original context or who have been exposed to numerous derivative styles.

When discussing "cancel culture," Segura asserted his belief that comedians can still say whatever they want, but they cannot control how audiences react. The main difference today is the heightened visibility of these reactions due to social media, not a fundamental change in people's capacity to be offended.

The Inner World of a Comedian: Darkness, Drive, and Vulnerability

A significant portion of the discussion centered on the comedian's psyche. Segura believes that acknowledging and channeling "dark thoughts" into art is a healthy creative outlet. He observed that comedians known for dark material on stage are often very kind and well-adjusted individuals offstage, whereas those who strictly avoid any hint of darkness in their act might be suppressing parts of themselves that could manifest in less healthy ways in their personal lives. He stated, "The Dalai Lama has dark thoughts... It's human beings."

Substance use within the comedy world was attributed to a confluence of factors: a higher prevalence of individuals with traumatic backgrounds or mental health challenges (like depression and anxiety) drawn to the profession, the nightlife environment where substances are accessible, and attempts to self-medicate or enhance creativity. Segura also touched upon the idea that true, pervasive cynicism is generally unfunny because it lacks hope and is unproductive, whereas comedians often use a performative or observational "complaining" as a source of humor – finding comedy in strong likes or dislikes.

Segura candidly shared his personal motivations, linking his drive in comedy to childhood experiences of frequently being the "new kid" and the ensuing desire for social acceptance and to be liked. This underlying insecurity, he feels, fuels the pursuit of making people laugh, though he acknowledged that external success doesn't magically erase such deep-seated feelings. Dr. Huberman and Segura discussed how this inner "friction" is often the spark for great art, and that therapy, while beneficial for awareness, doesn't necessarily remove the core drivers of creativity. Ultimately, Segura believes a genuine, almost obsessive love for making people laugh is essential for a comedian. He emphasized the power of vulnerability on stage, stating that when performers are willing to be open and vulnerable, audiences connect more deeply and the humor becomes more potent.

Conclusion: The Art of Connection

Tom Segura's conversation with Dr. Andrew Huberman illuminated the multifaceted world of comedy as a profound art form rooted in deep psychological understanding, relentless creative effort, and a unique form of human connection. Segura's insights reveal that comedy is far more than just telling jokes; it's about observing the human condition, bravely confronting its absurdities and darkness, and translating those observations into a shared experience that can be both hilarious and cathartic. His journey underscores the importance of authenticity, the courage to evolve, and the profound impact of a performer's ability to connect with an audience on an emotional level. For listeners, the episode offers not only a behind-the-scenes look at a master comedian's craft but also broader lessons on creativity, resilience, and the complex ways in which our inner lives shape our external expressions.