Understanding Your Pet’s Mind: Insights from Dr. Carolina Westland on the Huberman Lab Podcast

This episode of the Huberman Lab Podcast features Dr. Carolina Westland, an animal ethologist, who delves into the fascinating world of animal behavior, focusing on the relationship between humans and domesticated animals. Dr. Westland provides an evidence-based perspective on optimizing the mental and physical health of our pets by understanding their fundamental drives, evolutionary history, and species-specific needs. The discussion covers a wide range of topics, from the unique requirements of different dog breeds stemming from their wolf lineage to the often-misunderstood communication signals and social needs of cats. This episode is highly relevant for pet owners seeking to improve their animals' well-being, individuals interested in animal biology and psychology, and anyone looking to foster a deeper, more informed relationship with the animals in their lives by moving beyond speculation and grounding practices in scientific understanding.

Key Insights

• Understanding Evolutionary Drives is Key: Dr. Westland emphasizes that to truly optimize a pet's well-being, owners must understand and cater to the animal's innate drives and behaviors, which are rooted in their evolutionary history and the behaviors of their wild ancestors. This ethological approach offers a more accurate guide than common assumptions.
• Dog Breeds Reflect Truncated Predatory Sequences: Different dog breeds were selectively bred for specific parts of the wolf's predatory sequence (e.g., sniffing, pointing, chasing, retrieving, killing). Recognizing which part of this sequence a particular breed or individual dog is geared towards can help owners provide appropriate stimulation and outlets for their natural tendencies, such as through nose work or specific types of play.
• Mindful and Consensual Interaction: The way humans interact physically with animals, such as petting, should be based on the animal's consent and preferences. Slow, gentle strokes are often preferred over rapid patting, and understanding an animal's body language during interaction is crucial to ensure it's a positive experience for them, rather than mere tolerance or stress.
• Re-evaluating "Dominance": The concept of dominance in human-animal relationships is often misapplied. From an ethological standpoint, dominance refers to priority access to resources within a social group of animals to reduce conflict, not a hierarchical power struggle that humans must win over their pets. Many behaviors attributed to dominance can be better explained by learning, fear, or anxiety.
• The Complexity of Cat Behavior: Cats, though often perceived as solitary, evolved as solitary hunters that can aggregate in loose social groups. They possess complex communication signals (like scent marking through head bumping) and social needs. Providing an environment that respects their hunting instincts (e.g., puzzle feeders) and social structuring (e.g., separate feeding stations for multiple cats) is vital.
• The Importance of Natural Behavioral Outlets: Animals have a deep-seated need to express their natural repertoire of behaviors, such as foraging, exploring, and engaging in breed-specific tasks. Suppressing these can lead to problem behaviors. Providing enriching activities like nose work for dogs, puzzle feeders, or appropriate chew toys can significantly improve their mental health.
• Early Experiences Shape Adult Behavior: The early life experiences of animals, including the age of weaning and the quality of socialization, have a profound and lasting impact on their adult temperament, emotional regulation, and attachment styles (secure vs. insecure) with humans.

Understanding Animal Perception and Ethology

Dr. Carolina Westland, an animal ethologist, bases her work on understanding how different animal species perceive the world and what is fundamentally important to them, often by looking at their wild counterparts. She works with a diverse range of students, from first-time pet owners to experienced animal trainers and veterinarians.

The discussion begins with horses, which Dr. Westland describes as prey and herd animals. Their wide visual field allows them to be highly vigilant. She expresses concerns about modern horse-keeping practices, such as early weaning (wild foals stay with their mothers much longer), single housing for a social species, and feeding methods that don't allow for their natural foraging behavior (up to 16 hours a day in the wild). These deviations from their natural lifestyle can lead to problem behaviors and compromise their well-being.

Ethology, she explains, involves taking a step back to look at the species in general—how they evolved, their sensory worlds, and their innate behavioral needs. This contrasts with approaches that might focus solely on training outcomes without considering the animal's fundamental nature.

Decoding Dog Behavior: Breeds, Drives, and Communication

Dogs experience the world significantly through their sense of smell. Dr. Westland explains that different dog breeds were developed by selectively emphasizing certain parts of the wolf's natural predatory sequence. This sequence includes: an orienting response (sniffing, looking for prey), eyeing and stalking, chasing, a grab bite, a killing bite, dissecting, and finally, eating. Different breeds exemplify exaggerations of these stages:

• Hounds: Excel in the sniffing/orienting phase.
• Pointers: Selected for the eyeing/stalking behavior, often stopping before the chase.
• Border Collies: May exhibit eyeing, stalking, and some chasing, but ideally no grabbing.
• Greyhounds: Pure chasers.
• Retrievers: Focus on the grab bite (carrying).
• Terriers: Bred for the killing bite, particularly for small rodents (e.g., Westies).
• Livestock Guardians: Tend to show less of the predatory sequence, primarily sniffing and eating.

Understanding where a dog falls on this spectrum, even mixed breeds (whose confirmation can offer clues), is crucial for providing a good life. "Working dogs come with this evolutionary backpack," Dr. Westland notes, meaning they have a strong drive to perform these behaviors. In contrast, toy breeds may have less interest in these working behaviors.

Andrew Huberman shares an anecdote about his bulldog, Costello, who primarily exhibited the "consume" part of the sequence and was bred for bull-baiting, with physical traits like a short snout and high facial pain tolerance suited for this. This led to a discussion on the emotional life of dogs and how to make them feel calm and safe. Dr. Westland introduces the "core affect space" model (valence: pleasant/unpleasant vs. arousal: high/low). The goal is often "quadrant two": low arousal and pleasant (relaxed, safe, socially engaged). This is achieved by reducing negative emotions (fear, aggression) and providing stimulating, engaging activities to avoid boredom or depression.

Tactile stimulation (petting) can promote calmness if the animal enjoys it. Dr. Westland recommends a "consent test": pet for a few seconds, then withdraw your hand to see if the animal reinitiates contact. Many dogs prefer slow strokes and dislike being pet on top of the head, favoring the neck or upper chest. Hugging, a primate behavior, can feel like restraint to many animals. The human's calm emotional state can also co-regulate the animal, making them feel calmer.

The controversial topic of "dominance" is addressed. Ethologically, dominance is about priority access to resources within a stable social group to minimize aggression, not a general power dynamic that humans must establish over dogs. Behaviors like a dog backing away when confronted are more likely fear-based than submissive in a dominance context. Similarly, concepts like who eats first or who walks ahead are not necessarily about dominance but can be learned behaviors or simply expressions of the dog's natural tendencies.

Regarding communication, tail wags are complex. A wag predominantly to the dog's left side is associated with negative emotional states, while a right-sided wag suggests positive states. The type of wag (low and fast vs. high and stiff) also conveys different emotions. While dogs do have facial expressions, humans are often better at reading their gross body language because dogs use different facial muscles than humans for similar emotional expressions. Play behavior in dogs is characterized by MARS: Meta-signals (like a play bow), Activity shifts, Role reversals (taking turns "winning"), and Self-handicap (a larger dog restraining its strength). Dogs are also believed to possess empathy, showing comforting behaviors towards grieving humans.

The World of Cats: Solitary Hunters with Social Needs

Dr. Westland describes domestic cats as having evolved as solitary hunters who nonetheless aggregate in loose social groups. This means they hunt and typically eat alone. When evaluating a cat's well-being, she considers their social environment (optimal weaning around 14 weeks for better emotional stability), how they acquire food (they retain most of the hunting sequence), and their response to perceived threats.

A common misconception is that cats bringing prey home is a "gift." Dr. Westland suggests it's more likely they are bringing prey to a place where they feel safe to consume it. Early life experiences are crucial for cats; kittens handled for at least an hour daily between 2-8 weeks tend to become more social adults, while those with minimal handling may become more "aloof."

Cat behaviors like head bumping are a form of scent marking, creating a group scent and fostering cohesion. Urine marking can be territorial (often at the periphery of their perceived territory, like windows or doors) or an elimination problem (potentially due to pain associated with the litter box). Dr. Westland advises that a cat's litter box should not be placed near its food, as they naturally avoid eliminating where they eat. The instinct to cover waste is likely for hygiene. In contrast, when dogs kick dirt after defecating, it's generally interpreted as spreading their scent rather than covering waste.

Broader Considerations: Domestication, Zoos, and Innate Behaviors

The domestication of dogs likely occurred through self-domestication, where less fearful wolves began associating with human settlements for food. Animals are fundamentally driven by the need for safety, food acquisition, and social interaction. When these needs aren't met through appropriate outlets, problem behaviors can arise.

The discussion touches upon zoos. Historically, zoos were menageries, but modern zoos often focus on conservation (in-situ and ex-situ) and public education. However, Dr. Westland acknowledges the conflict: while zoos can do good, housing conditions are not always optimal, especially for wide-ranging species like polar bears. The Tatiana the tiger incident at the San Francisco Zoo is mentioned, where a tiger, after being taunted, escaped and specifically targeted her tormentors, suggesting a calculated, offensive aggression rather than indiscriminate fear-based lashing out.

The importance of allowing animals to express their natural behavioral repertoires is a recurring theme. For dogs, this can mean engaging in "nose work" (scent detection games), which studies suggest can help regulate arousal and increase positive emotional states. Scatter-feeding or using puzzle feeders, rather than just providing food in a bowl, engages their foraging instincts and provides mental stimulation. Different breeds will benefit from activities that align with their part of the predatory sequence (e.g., allowing retrievers to carry things, or providing terriers/poodles with items to "disembowel").

The urban environment can be stressful for many dogs due to constant sensory bombardment and frequent encounters with strangers. Introducing new pets to each other, especially cats, should be done gradually, starting with scent exchange, then auditory, visual, and finally tactile interaction to minimize aggression.

Animals generally have an innate ability for species recognition, preventing cross-species mating attempts. Exceptions exist, such as sexual imprinting in some waterfowl where males learn who to court based on who raised them. Dr. Westland clarifies that dogs form attachment bonds with humans, not imprinting. These attachment bonds, similar to human child-caregiver bonds described by Bowlby, can be secure or insecure, profoundly influenced by early experiences, including weaning age. She suggests that the common practice of weaning puppies at 8 weeks might be too early from an ethological perspective and could contribute to insecure attachment and difficulties with self-regulation later in life. A securely attached animal is better able to cope with stressors and new situations.

Human-Animal Interactions: Neutering and Shared Animal-ness

The topic of neutering pets is explored, highlighting significant cultural differences (e.g., it's generally not allowed in Norway for non-medical reasons, while mandatory in Western Australia unless for breeding). Dr. Westland points out alternatives to complete removal of gonads, such as vasectomies/tubal ligations or reversible chemical castration, which preserve hormonal function. The scientific understanding of neutering's effects has evolved; while once broadly recommended, studies now show potential downsides, including increased fear, reactivity, noise sensitivity, and risks for certain health issues, particularly if done early. The effects are breed-specific, gender-specific, and age-dependent. Andrew Huberman shares his personal experience of administering testosterone to his neutered, aging bulldog, which he felt improved his vigor and reduced joint pain, and notes the surprisingly positive feedback he received from some veterinarians who are also questioning early neutering practices due to hormonal impacts.

Finally, the conversation reflects on humans as an animal species. Dr. Westland suggests that a key differentiator for humans is the extent of cultural learning and our ability to build upon knowledge from past generations, literally reading thoughts thousands of years old. While other animals learn through direct experience and social observation of their immediate group, humans have a unique capacity for cumulative cultural evolution. This ability, she notes, underscores the dynamic nature of science itself, where today's convictions might be revised tomorrow.

Conclusion

The core message of Dr. Carolina Westland's insights is the profound importance of understanding animals through an ethological lens. By appreciating their evolutionary heritage, innate drives, species-specific needs, and individual temperaments, humans can move beyond anthropocentric assumptions and provide care that genuinely enhances their pets' physical and mental well-being. This scientific approach to animal behavior not only helps in preventing and addressing problem behaviors but also fosters deeper, more respectful, and enriching relationships between humans and the animals they live with. The episode empowers listeners with knowledge and practical tools to become more observant and responsive caregivers, ultimately contributing to a higher quality of life for their beloved pets.